Episode 65

Sandra interviews Daniel and Caitlin Anear, an INFJ ISFJ couple with 3 kids. They talk about their personality similarities and differences and how they navigate those together in their marriage and parenting relationship. 

Links and references:

Daniel Anear’s Counseling
Convergently Speaking Podcast

Cognitive Function Cheat Sheet

Myers-Briggs Basics

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Full show notes: 

I decided to play around with transcripts for this episodes’ show notes. Let me know what you think! 

Sandra Etherington  

Today I’m speaking with Daniel and Caitlin. They are an INFJ ISFJ couple with three kids. We talk about their personality similarities and differences and how they navigate those together in their parenting relationship. 

Guys, this conversation filled my bucket up to the tippy top, like so much good stuff, possibly my bucket has overflowed. Seeing how people use personality type in their everyday home relationships is exactly what I aim for on this podcast. And Dan and Caitlin delivered on this and then some. 

So Daniel Anear, he’s a relationship and marriage counselor working in private practice since 2019, with a background of 20 years working in human services, primarily in mental health. And Caitlin Anear works in disability. And she also runs some of the behind the scenes of Dan’s counseling business. Together, they create a really great podcast called convergently speaking, which is a personal development and relationships podcast with a personality psychology bent. So they talk about Myers Briggs on there. And this is one of the podcasts that I listened to regularly, they have some really great stuff. And I also appeared as a guest a few months ago, if you’re curious to listen to that episode as well. 

Now the reason I wanted to have Daniel and Caitlin on the podcast is partly because Caitlin has ISFJ preferences and Myers Briggs. And we’re currently covering the Introverted Sensing or what I call Preservation Sensing function right now on the podcast. And she’s a great example of a person who uses that function and can speak to how it shows up in both in her marriage and in her parenting. But also the two of them together know type very well. And they’ve used their understanding of type to improve their parenting relationship and their marriage. So I thought that would be a really great model an example for all of us. 

So in this episode, we focus a lot on the cognitive functions that Caitlin as an INFJ and Dan as an INFJ use. And if you don’t know what a cognitive function is, and Myers Briggs, I recommend you go check out Episode 39 for an introduction to cognitive functions, and also my cognitive functions cheat sheet at family personalities.com slash functions. And if you specifically want to hear about the particular functions that we spent a lot of time on today, Dan’s lead function of Insightful Intuition, or Introverted Intuition, which is all of our NJ’s is is covered in Episode 47. And Caitlin’s lead function of Preservation Sensing or Introverted Sensing, we covered last episode, and that’s all of our SJs on the Myers Briggs and that was episode number 64. We also talked a lot about a function that both Dan and Caitlin share as their second function as INFJs and ISFJ’s, which is all of our FJ’s, which is Relational Feeling or Extraverted Feeling. We haven’t done an episode on that function yet on the podcast, but it is upcoming I promise. 

I’m not really sure what percentage of this family of listeners is brand new to Myers Briggs, and what percentage of you are well steeped in. But before we dive into the conversation, I wanted to quickly go over the shorthand that a lot of people use in the personality type community for cognitive functions, because Dan and Caitlin used it a few times, and you may have noticed it in some of my episode titles. Take for example, the function of Preservation Sensing or the technical name is Introverted Sensing. This function is denoted by a big S for sensing and then a subscript small I because it’s an introverted function. So I for introversion, and people will often call it in conversation Si. On the opposite side, extroverted sensing, which I call responsive sensing would be denoted by a big S for sensing and a small subscript E for extraversion, and people will call it Se. And then you’ve got Ni for Introverted Intuition and Ne for extroverted intuition, Fi for introverted feeling and Fe for Extraverted Feeling and so on. Okay, now that you know the jargon, you listener are officially a personality type nerd. I’m sorry, you can’t escape it any longer. But don’t worry. I’ll be here with you all. Episode Geeking. 

Ok, here are Daniel and Caitlin Anear. 

Thank you guys so much for coming on the podcast. I’ve actually been looking forward to this conversation with you guys for like three months now. Because I think that’s maybe even four. I think that’s when we first talked about doing this. But it was waiting to slot it in in the right place in the podcast, so yeah, really appreciate it.

Dan  

No worries. Thanks for having us.

Caitlin  

Yeah, thank you. We’ve really been looking forward to it as well. It’s always really nice to talk about type and parenting and relationships and all that.

Sandra Etherington  

Yeah, How about you introduce yourself? You know your names, how many kids you have in their ages.

Dan  

Okay, so I’m Dan. And this is Caitlin. And I’m from Adelaide, South Australia, where we live. And Caitlin is originally from Minnesota in the US, but you’ve been here since 2007. Now, it’s been a while.

Caitlin  

Yeah, long time. 

Sandra Etherington  

No, I didn’t know that. So how old were you when you moved to Australia then?

Caitlin  

So I was 19. I was 19. When I first came, I went back and forth for a little bit. And then I was 22 when we got married, and so have been properly here. Ever since that. So yeah, long, long time. Most of my, well, all of my adult life really has been here.

Dan  

And we have three kids. So we have a daughter who is eight and a half. We have a son who is five and a half. And we have a third daughter who is always a third key. The second daughter who is four.

Sandra Etherington  

Yeah, you guys have the we have the same age kids, except you added a third.

Caitlin  

That third makes all the difference

Sandra Etherington  

Yeah, we added gerbils instead. Yeah, I still curse every time I have to clean out their cage, though. And then what do you guys do for work? And maybe talk a little bit about your podcast?

Dan  

Yeah, sure. So right now what we do for work is I’m working for myself, as a counselor and a life coach, the  sort of natural evolution of things has been that I’m primarily working with couples around relationships, but also a percentage of singles who are drawn towards booking with me because of my focus on relationships. And so I have a number of singles that I work with around relational issues, or relational type stuff as well. However, I’ve only been doing the counseling part exclusively for some months, I’ve actually been meaning to work out how long it’s been now. Prior to that I was also doing some disability work, mental health and youth work. But yeah, exclusively self employed now. And I started a podcast called convergently. Speaking, a few years back, and Caitlin’s always been behind the scenes helping me with that she’s the editor and social media. I don’t know… Genius

Caitlin  

I wouldn’t go that far.

Dan  

Caitlin’s been the social media person as well. But since a few months now we’re actually co hosting it. So the podcast was originally self development with a focus on topology, or a typology, and has evolved to be a podcast with a focus on relationships and improving our relationship with ourselves and with others, with an emphasis on typology. But we go into other systems as well. And I’ll say, talk to guests.

Caitlin  

Yeah, and so I for work for me, I’ve pretty much my whole life, working life have done things in the disability field. So I started out right out of high school, doing some jobs working in some group homes, and that kind of thing. took a few years off with kids and stuff didn’t work much. But I’ve just this year, last few months, gotten back into that which has been really nice to work at, at a at a house with directly with the family. And that’s it’s really lovely look after their son. And I also also do very ISFJ of me, I do a lot of cooking. And so I’ve done some baking market stalls somewhere in between when I had little, little kids. At the moment, I’m trying to build a bit of a business to combine those two things where I’ll be making premade meals for people with disabilities who need special diets and that kind of thing. I’m working on that. That’s great. I love that. Yeah, so it should work. It’s a bit a little bit slow going. But I’m I’m working on that at the moment. And then I do a lot of Dan’s behind the scenes stuff, as he said for do all the invoicing and then the podcast stuff, too.

Dan  

So we’re really part time parents, part time workers. At this point. That’s really we didn’t really plan it that way. Although, yeah, I think it’s working well.

Caitlin  

Yeah, that’s just been the last five or six months I think that I started going back to work. And up until then, Dan was fully you know, the main income earner I was basically doing nothing. So it’s been quite a big shift. those last few months where I was doing all of the home stuff. And now Yeah, we’re sharing it a bit more, which is good. 

Sandra Etherington  

And Caitlin you slipped in there that you have ISFJ preferences, or at least that your baking is so ISFJ yet. And on the enneagram Do you know your type? 

Caitlin  

And the enneagram? I’m on nine. I think sexual subtype is that.

Dan  

Yes, one to one or sexual? Whatever you call it? Yep.

Caitlin  

Okay, but definitely a nine.

Sandra Etherington  

And then, Dan, what is your Myers Briggs and enneagram?

Dan  

Yep, so my Myers Briggs is INFJ. And enneagram is one. And also, I’m, I’m pretty confident I’m one to one or sexual subtype as well.

Sandra Etherington  

Yeah. And that was interesting, because when you and I first connected we, we thought, oh, we’re  personality type twins, because we’re both INFJ and Enneagram One, but then when we talked about subtypes of enneagram, that’s where we, where we differ, I have the self preservation subtype. So just a slightly different flavor of the enneagram. 

I would love to hear just how you guys met each other.

Caitlin  

So Dan’s from Adelaide here. I, as I said, I first came here when I was 19. What I was doing was, I was part of a church mission group. And so I came here to do that, and do some volunteer work and study through them. And Dan was already here doing that. And so yeah, we met there. And we’re in the same circles. And actually, well, it was, it was a living type of program thing. So a bunch of people all lived in a real big house. So we lived in the same area, in the same house. Yeah, we lived there. And we’re working together for a couple years,

Dan  

I used to call it an unintentional community, instead of an intentional community. Because although it was kind of an intentional community, that wasn’t a focus, it was quite, I suppose quite economic, that we all live together, because, you know, didn’t have a lot of income. And it’s just the nature of how this organization operates around the world.

Caitlin  

So we met through that, and we were friends knew knew each other, and we’re friends for quite a while, a couple years, two years before we got togethe.

Dan  

There’s about like, sort of anywhere between 30 to 50 of us that were living together in this one facility. So it’s not like it was just Caitlin. Just a couple other people were a whole bunch of people.

Caitlin  

Yeah. And as things do, we then you know, things sort of progressed. And we eventually got together. And because we had all of that background and sort of intensive time together, we got together and then got engaged and married all very quickly, within nine months.

Dan  

So we’d been we’d we were together for one year as a couple when we’d already been married for three months.

Sandra Etherington  

Yeah. Wow. What do you think it was that took you so long to get together romantically? What was the the two year lag there,

Dan  

I was just showing someone else. I was single for five years. So I was pretty young, I’d had a pretty dysfunctional relationship from 19 to 21. And after that, and realizing I was repeating some of the same patterns of my parents’ relationship. I basically wanted to wait as long as I needed to get it right.

Caitlin  

Mm hmm. And I think because well, Dan’s four years older than me. And so when we met, I was 19. He was 23. So that sort of stage that age gap is quite a bit more than you know, even a couple years. Yeah, later, life experience and everything. And I think in those couple years, I did a lot

Sandra Etherington  

 Yeah, I feel like every year makes a difference at that age. Yep.

Caitlin  

So yeah, I think we sort of in those years, both grew and changed in ways that then made made us sort of more compatible. Um, yeah, I don’t think in the beginning. I don’t know.It wasn’t necessarily like something that was all always there. It sort of In fact, people were very surprised me, who knew us both. Were very confused. We just weren’t Yeah, didn’t seem from those early years. Like we would be it be a match, but

Dan  

Yeah, people were surprised and confused, as was I. Caitlin wasn’t the sort of person I went for traditionally. But I knew that the sort of person I went for recently wasn’t a good healthy pattern or impulse, including that girl that I mentioned that I was pursuing. Thankfully, that didn’t work out because I think I was still caught up in sort of, consciously, I should say unconsciously but but semi consciously trying to repeat that same pattern. Again, this is where we can talk about this later. But this is what we do as, as humans, when we get into romantic relationships, and so I really took a step out beyond my natural impulse or comfort zone and was like, Dan, you don’t need to marry this person, or you’re, you know, doing is taking the first step. And I’m very glad I did. I’m very glad I did that. I changed.

Sandra Etherington  

Oh, yeah. You took the first step. And then you did get married 

Dan  

Yeah, that’s right. very quickly. So yeah, I didn’t have it all figured out when I went forward, which as an IJ is a bit out of character, huh? Enneagram One, it’s probably both things.

Sandra Etherington  

Yeah. Okay, so as an ISFJ, INFJ. Couple, you do have some similarities. And you guys do have some differences, right? So kind of what I wanted to focus on today was talking about those similarities and differences and what that looks like in your relationship, and specifically in your parenting relationship. So really quick, let’s talk about the driver functions, right? So I know you guys know type really well. And so if there’s anything that you want to add, when I go over these functions, please feel free. 

But Dan, as someone with INFJ preferences you lead or drive with a function called Introverted Intuition, which my nickname for that function is Insightful Intuition. And we tend to be very focused on the future. we glean insights from the data that we that comes in we are very big picture thinking, we tend to be really in our heads, and we really like novelty. 

And then ISFJ. On Caitlin’s side, they lead with a function called Introverted Sensing, which I nicknamed Preservation Sensing. And on the flip side, people who use that function tend to be very focused on past experiences, practicalities, details, and they like preserving past ways of doing things. Is there anything else you guys like to really focus on when you think of your lead functions?

Dan  

Personally, what I relate a lot to is with Introverted Intuition is this ability to perspective shift and take perspective. So being able to, I feel I am able to embody different perspectives. And that’s a lot of what I’ve realized I lean on when I’m working with clients, and specifically when I’m working with couples, anything you want to add cat.

Caitlin  

No, I like your summation of Introverted Sensing, though, that’s helpful. I think. I don’t always fit it. The way that people explain it. I don’t always fit it. Like I’m not that organized. I’m not you know, there’s a few things I’ve always been like, Oh, is that really me or not? But yeah, definitely. Focusing on the past, like I connect a lot with the past, that’ll be sort of how I process things. And yeah, hard, hard to change my way of doing things or think of new ideas, not just go back over the same information all the way. Like when I’m trying to solve problems. I’ll kind of go, Oh, you know, I’ll go just through the same the same problem solving and conclude there’s no solution. Get me to be like, Oh, that’s so yeah, that’s, that’s what Yeah, difference really helps. Yeah, no, there’s nothing else to add.

Sandra Etherington  

And then what you guys share in common is your second function, or the copilot function, which is called Extraverted Feeling. And I nicknamed that one Relational Feeling. And it’s all about paying attention to the collective needs of the group in order to build relationships and decide in a connected way. And so that’s your guys’ main similarity, and I find that as an INFJ also Dan tend to be attracted to ISFJ’s i think that that the Extraverted Feeling in the second spot there really connects me with people in a special way. I have a lot of really close ISFJ friends. 

So I’m curious what initially attracted you to one another, personality wise.

Caitlin  

I think that the main thing for me probably that now I can see now I can understand what was going on from a personality perspective was I think, just that Dan seemed to just have a different way of looking at things, which is that which would have been that and I you know, as we said, we were in this in this group of lots of people and that we were living with and yeah, Dan was just different and had a different way of going about things that I really liked. And you know, I think naturally thought that I would grow from and would learn from. So yeah, I think that was probably the main main thing. Yeah.

Sandra Etherington  

You were attracted to his Introverted Intuition. Without knowing it,

Caitlin  

Exactly. Well. And that Extraverted Feeling, I suppose, naturally, you know, we just connected on that we were able to talk about emotions, and he was attuned to how I was going and cared for me, and that kind of thing. And even Yeah, before we were interested in each other, you know, would have Well, we always had lots of conversations about relationships and about that kind of thing. Yeah, a lot. It was kind of a running joke. Actually, Dan would always be sitting in the dining hall at the end of the night with a bunch of people around and we’d always  end up talking about relationships and things. 

Dan  

And often it was just Dan around a bunch of girls. 

Caitlin  

Yeah. And often we would be, you know, some of the last ones, they’re just talking about different people and different situations we’d been in and I suppose Yeah, that really would have been our Extraverted Feeling. Chat. Ah, that was what we were connecting on. Yeah.

Sandra Etherington  

And then what about you Dan.

Dan  

Well, some years back,  I think I already mentioned that. I tended to have bad patterns or habits with relationships. And it’s not, you know, it’s nothing like super bad, but I just saw that there were some unhealthy dynamics. And I’d actually been interested in another American Girl previously. And we sort of got together and actually learned from that it was all very conscious. It’s all very boring. And let’s say logical and mundane, which I think was really helpful for me to get out of justice pure, making decisions with the feelings and I’d actually reflected on what I liked about that girl and what was really positive. And I saw a lot of the same traits in Katelyn, which was a lightheartedness and a fun, and it’s really a, I’m what I’m talking about is really partly the American culture, a lightheartedness, and a joy and an optimism in in life, that we just don’t have that same flavor within our culture here. And I’ve always found that I was more drawn to Americans in general, even just the Americans that I was leading on on the teams because I was a leader within that organization. And yeah, I suppose a lot of traits that I didn’t feel I embodied but felt like they are really good for me, you know, rather than getting together with another really serious, introverted kind of analytical or academic type of person. Some of that was a bit more fun. I mean, that was really, really part of it. And Caitlin also had a confidence about it that was really attractive. I mean, was compassionate and gentle, but also confident she wasn’t sort of just like a fly on the wall kinda kind of thing.

Caitlin  

Might have just been misplaced confidence because I was so young, but

Sandra Etherington  

Confidence is attractive, even when it’s misplaced. I’ve never heard that about American culture. I guess sometimes you don’t recognize those patterns in your own culture because they’re familiar to you.

Dan  

Yeah, I mean, I’m, I’m thinking generally have an Enneagram Seven type vibe. Not that everyone’s a Seven but I think you guys I mean, there’s a stereotype with Australian culture that we’re all laid back surfers that want to have fun, and and i think i think there is that I definitely think there is that but there’s also a more reserved, introverted and more cynical, and more and, and, you know, I like the sarcastic humor and more sarcastic, but it is you know, if you guys are more optimistic, were more pessimistic. And I see the American culture is just generally a little more seven ish. And as a one and as your no one. Spending time with people that sevens is really, it’s really good for me, it helps me lighten up and Caitlin’s not a seven but but she got that.

Sandra Etherington  

 Yeah, that’s your growth arrow, right? Our growth arrow is towards seven. 

Dan  

That’s right. It’s the growth arrow. Yeah.

Sandra Etherington  

So first, I wanted to start with your guys’ similarities. So that Extraverted Feeling or Relational Feeling: how does that present in your guys’ marriage or in your parenting relationship together What’s the positive I guess first of that?

Dan  

I had a friend not long ago who has Relational Feeling like that Relational Feeling third and was kind of bitter and like made some comment about not liking having it as an art, you know, sucks having Extraverted Feeling and, you know, isn’t it just the worst sort of thing and I said, torture is I think, torturous..An ENTP.. And I found myself saying, No, I actually quite like having it. And, and, and I think I commented that, you know, we have it in a different position. And I think I’m speaking on behalf of you, but I think we both appreciate having it there. And it’s really served our relationship. 

Well, you know, as I said, I work with couples. So I see all various types of communication dynamics and relationship dynamics between couples. And as I’ve done my studies around that there’s this idea that couples that don’t argue, are keeping stuff, you know, under the rug, not dealing with stuff not being real, not being authentic. And I was sort of like for a while there thinking, Well, is there something amiss, because we don’t argue, but I never really felt there was something amiss. And now as I’ve understood type better, I see that it’s because we both have Extraverted Feeling second that I’m very attuned to Caitlin’s feelings, and she’s very attuned to my feelings, and we don’t really need to, like, that’s our priority. We prioritize that that’s what Extraverted Feeling does. 

And when we get to the question of the downsides, we can also speak to that but in terms of our relationship, our ability to connect and get along, and our ability to support our children in an emotional sense. Yeah, well, it’s a bit overkill. We’ve got more than we need a job often, you know, I feel I often feel like that I can’t provide some of my skill and gift to the children because Caitlin’s already scratching that itch and she is more nurturing than I am even though I’m like you know I’ve got all that it shows up in a different way 

Caitlin  

Yeah, and we we do have sort of slightly different flavors of Extraverted Feeling that’s just the way that it sort of presents in us probably be the combination of the the you know, the first function and then Extraverted Feeling you know, it kind of for me, I want to nurture everybody by cooking for them and then

Sandra Etherington  

In practical ways 

Caitlin  

Yeah. I always you know, I’m the queen of people’s dietary preferences when I have people over like just makes me so happy to know that everyone can eat and so it’s same with the kids you know, I’m I’m good with the practical stuff and and meeting needs practically and then Dan’s more on the emotional and well the counseling stuff and the talking about things and

Sandra Etherington  

Helping them take different perspectives. 

Caitlin  

Yes, yeah. And we’ve often said and now we’re finding it you know, he’ll be much better he’ll shine more than I will as they get older. I think it was easy for me and I come I’m the oldest of a big family. So it’s the early years and the baby stuff. Like I could do that easily. Because I you know, that was like my time to shine and, but later on, when it’s bigger problems and bigger things. I’ll probably struggle more. And he’ll be better

Dan  

Philosophical type stuff. Yeah. 

Caitlin  

Yeah.I think one pitfall we definitely could have with both having Extraverted Feeling Well, because both of us with Extraverted Feeling easily I think we could have fallen into the trap of becoming very codependent where we’re, you know, only looking at adding others, you know, constantly looking out for the other person, not for ourselves. I think that could have been very easy. Dan had as he said, You know, he had had more life experience and more relationships before we got together.

Dan  

I’d made more codependent mistakes.

Caitlin  

Yeah, so he’d done a lot of that work beforehand. And so he didn’t let me get away with that really early on. He was able to have boundaries and not not because the first few years of our marriage were very hard. We had a lot of life stuff going on. We just before we got married, we left that the group, the organization we were working with that had been our life for a long time. And so it was just, you know, big crash and we didn’t have any life skills that we could use to make money.

Dan  

Can I tell a story that I remember from that time that Caitlin’s talking about is when we first got married, we moved out of the community, we’re living in a little unit renting from my father. So getting a quite a cheap rate because we weren’t really earning much money yet. You know, Caitlin had a job working in disability. And I think, and I was in the process of getting a job working in disability. But you’ll remember, we had a dynamic that I was stressed, she was stressed, I had a lot of health issues going on. And I remember one particular day bringing up something and trying to get something off my chest with Caitlin, and whatever I shared, caused her to cry. And then because of what it brought up for her, and then I found myself caring for her emotional needs in the wake of me having to share my emotional needs. And it wasn’t really cognitive, it was like, it was was like this pure primal response where I didn’t have the emotional, whatever in my bank account to actually support her through everything at that time. And in that particular moment, I was struggling and I sort of was able to articulate somehow, I’ve tried to share, I’m struggling and the fact that when I share you cry and like crying looks, you know, really, like a big a bigger thing. It makes it look like you’ve got more of an issue than me and I end up caring for your needs. And it’s not it’s not really fair on me. And that was, I suppose a kind of an assertiveness that wasn’t natural to me. But because I was struggling so much I simply couldn’t be there for her in that moment. And I was like, Well, hold on. This isn’t fair. Anyway, I was talking about me and I think that’s probably one big moment where we didn’t fall into a codependent thing. You know, I let her be her inner struggle. And did she let me be me? I don’t know. But that was kinda you know, that was a bit of that dynamic.

Caitlin  

Yeah, yeah, that’s been a lot of our growth especially since we got married so young, we’ve you know, done a lot we did most of my 20s together. Yeah, we had to have that growth and fortunately, probably mostly thanks to Dan and and yeah, mostly thanks to Dan in that kind of dynamic. We’ve been able to figure out how to grow separately and look after each other but also figure out how to do a little bit more of the self care so that it didn’t become too too and meshed so yeah, very grateful for that because it could really could probably go badly in that way when those when those two are when both of us have Extraverted Feeling together. Mm hmm.

Sandra Etherington  

Do you guys ever feel that it stops you from bringing things up with each other because you’re afraid to hurt the other person’s feelings? 

Caitlin

Yes.

Dan  

No. 

Caitlin  

I think I’m feeling that a little bit lately which maybe that’s why I’m saying it so easily. I think it’s still probably he’s better at it than me so when I know he’s stressed I not even wanting to bring up conflict type stuff but just I will this is also from being from a big family but all I say to myself Oh, I don’t want to put more stress on Dan’s I’ll just deal with my own issues rather than sharing with him. Yeah, you don’t have that impulse

Dan  

Not really.

Sandra Etherington  

What do you think that is, Dan? I’m curious too because as someone with INFJ preferences I have a really hard time bringing something up with my partner because I’m afraid that I’m going to put more stress on him and I’ll  hurt him so I’m curious, what is that? Why do you have more comfort with it?

Dan  

So rather than going in painstaking detail about all the things maybe I’ll list a few points that I suppose that comes from and we can explore if need be so i think you know part of it is obviously being raised as a man as a boy, as a man. Caitlin and I reflected that when it comes to women, they aren’t always, she especially wasn’t encouraged to have an opinion in the same way that that I was. 

Caitlin  

And that’s the Enneagram Nine. I mean, he can really bring it to you know that I have a sort of a double whammy of not wanting to rock the boat and just happy to bear all of the internal conflict and discomfort rather than bringing it to the outside world. So that’s a big part of it to work on.

Dan  

Yeah. When women are not raised to have an opinion as much as men and men are not raised to have emotions as much as women. And this was just that was something years ago, I remember going yeah, that’s interesting because Caitlin was, I was trying to understand why she had such a hard time sharing what she wanted. And it is the Enneagram Nine thing as well, I think part of it’s that part of it’s probably also being an only child. So I always had, you know, as an only child, you get more of a chance to have an opinion, you don’t get lost in the the maze of everyone else. And or in the matrix maybe I should say, and my dad definitely encouraged me to have an opinion. So there’s all that I think that being in any gram one is a part of it, you know, we are a bit more black and white, we think we know what’s right and what’s wrong. And then another part that’s quite big. And this is something that Caitlin alluded to earlier, is we have different types of Extraverted Feeling. And so your listeners may or may not be familiar with Objective Personality, 

Sandra Etherington  

You know, you mention Objective Personality all the time. And I always am like, like, everything you say about it is really fascinating. And yet I still have not immersed myself, mostly, they’re not on the platforms that I usually use. 

Dan  

Ueah, it’s because of that, yep. But they’ve got great little YouTube videos. And so they have essentially built, they’ve kind of evolved the Myers Briggs theory, they’ve used that as the basis, but they’ve gone beyond that, and I’m not sure to what degree, you know, they would consider themselves a Myers Briggs theory, but they’ve got they’ve broken all the categories down into 512 types from the 16, which sounds ridiculous and unnecessary. But they do it in a very systematic way. And, and one of the categories in which they, one of the areas they make more categories is the types of cognitive function. So in this instance, Extraverted Feeling, they talk about Feminine and Masculine, Extraverted Feeling. And they do it with all the functions. And so without going into all this in great detail, in simple terms, feminine functions are more fluid, they’re more flexible, they’re more adaptive, whereas the masculine functions are more immovable. And they’re more so to, I suppose you’d say black and white, but they’re more immovable. And so I, I have Masculine Extraverted Feeling so well, they, I’m worried about I’m more I’m more prepared to push my Extraverted Feeling stuff onto the tribe onto others. Whereas the Extraverted feelers that have that sort of more Feminine category of Extraverted Feeling, do struggle with boundaries, more do struggle with codependency more. So while I’ve struggled with all these things, I’ve definitely not struggled with them. to the same extent,

Caitlin  

I think I sometimes think of it as Dan or maybe the Masculine Extraverted Feeling, they more if we both have the same goal of meeting the needs of the whole group, Dan’s way of going about that is to Well, I know what the whole group needs, I’m going to tell them and for me, it’s more like, I’ll just give in to what everyone else needs and keep everyone happy. You know, so it is that same goal, but it’s very different ways of going about it. I think that you’ve had Dario Nardi on the podcast I think he also has two different what he says and I think when we looked at that it seems

Dan  

Yeah, he uses different language but I think he’s explaining the same phenomenon.

Caitlin  

I can’t remember what it was

Sandra Etherington  

Yeah, he calls it Holistic and Analytic Yes. The two different flavors of each function yeah in his book The Magic diamond if anyone’s curious

Dan  

Yeah, people may like that language better some people don’t like the the masculine and feminine language which I get I’ve just found it easier to remember then his his his language

Sandra Etherington  

yeah

Dan  

yeah um but I was gonna add on there cuz you asking about the parenting dimension as well and so I think this plays into how we parent you know, so I’m, I’m more of the bad cop. If you have a good cop and bad cop now one of our issues is probably a little bit both too much the good cop. But yeah, if there is a good cop and bad cop, it’s me with my aMsculine Extraverted Feeling, I think and being the Enneagram One that I am a bit more forceful, and a bit more. Yeah, all those kind of bad cop traits without being bad, but yeah, and Caitlin, Caitlin’s the nurturer and struggles more to draw a line in the sand.

Caitlin  

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I have to remember that setting boundaries that they don’t like it’s good for them. And yeah, yeah, it is. It is hard. And I think growing up as I said, you know, growing up in a big family, so I’m the oldest of five. My brother who’s the fourth has a disability who has Down syndrome. And so yeah, I sort of just went from I’m just not gonna have any needs and that’s how I can, you know, help the group basically. So um, yeah, I’m good at giving in and letting other people do what they want, unfortunately, including the kids. Yeah, I’m grateful. Or dad too, sometimes we might, you know, notice things and it’s been good now that we’re sharing he’s home with the kids more when I’m working. He’s picking up on it’s been good, initially uncomfortable, but good that he picks up on some of those things like we really have to set a rule here we really have to, you know, have have something more for instance, eating like they just eat all day long, you know, snacks and things.